Read these!
We know by now that the actual church building has nothing to do with God's Eternal Purpose. The church service is a thing created by us and for us - God's Need is seldom, if ever, considered. If we recognize that the service, ministry, meeting, gathering, or building is not the end, but only a means to an End (which is Christ), then we do well. But when we attach spiritual, emotional, or even superstitious significance to a mere thing, or place, or day, or tradition, or way of doing things, then we will be spoiled through "traditions of men", and will not walk after Christ Himself.
Chip Brogden
I found this quote on a website in my surfing about church and thought it was worthy of posting. I'd love to see some comments on it. On this site are some great talks you can read in regards to church.
posted by The Krow at 08:59
6 Comments:
What I love about blogging (and you have a nice one, Krow!) is that it provides a great place to discuss ideas. Topics that seem taboo (i.e. get rid of church buildings!) are fair game here! I would love to hear a discussion in a small group regarding this topic. HERESY!
I couldn't agree more with Chip. And I would have to through all of our "programs" into the pot as well. A program is nothing but a devise used to meld culture and gospel. When we attach false significance to our programs they begin to turn into something ugly; they begin to look like us.
I think the intention is good behind this sentiment of doing away with the obstacles to real spirituality -- I saw an article about a church that the members demolished. But I wonder if it isn't a bit extreme. Well, perhaps it takes a bit of extremity to flush out the shite that's built up in our heads and hearts, but ultimately one hopes to come back to a place of balance wherein each thing is recognized in it's place of appropriate significance.
But then my primary difference of vision to what Mr. Brogden says here is that I don't believe in any such thing as "a mere thing, or place, or day, or tradition, or way of doing things..." God spoke and the world was. So all that's created is ontologically rooted in the purpose of God -- our God who is Love.
It's kind of like what Jesus says about plucking out the eye if it causes you to sin. I doubt he really wants us to go about plucking out our eyeballs... I'd be at an enormous deficit and I'd have to rip my brain out of my skull to stop the offending images. So, while I think if we have to take action against something to get ourselves back on track, I think we also need to keep in mind the eventual restoration of the good that was still within the obstacle.
But I'm not shouting out "HERESY!" either. It's good to talk and reason through things.
Well said, Xenophon. I also affirm Chip's intention in the quote, but I think it goes a step too far. The church building, for example, is not THE Church, but it is a space made sacred by the God honoured there and the communities which belongs to it, and like you say, because it is part of Creation.
Additionally, tradition, in the ancient spiritual sense, should be embraced as a gift of rootedness to the on-going story we find ourselves in.
That being said, the stubborn attachment to things that distract from the Kingdom need to be addressed. Great quote in that respect!
Peace,
Jamie Arpin-Ricci
www.emergentvoyageurs.blog.com
I can agree with you Jamie that the church is a sacred space made holy by God.
jones.... "appropriate significance"
I can handle that, I think if we had a proper context and handle things are the proper levels with nothing out balanced that it would be good. Meaning we don't over emphasis the church building as the church, but don't deny it's place as a God honoured space.
Seeing a building as "the church" would be outlandish. I agree with Jamie, that it can be a holy space.
That said, in America we don't tend to "sanctify" our holy spaces -- we build tourist attractions out of them. I wish I could own that insight as mine, but I appropriated it from Neil Gaiman's novel American Gods. He's got a point.
Of course the holiest "space" is the human heart... but I'm thinking that it's not so far off from a tourist attraction, either, oftentimes.
IC XC Nika,
+Xeno
Jones....
well stated! I certainly could not have put it in such a way myself. Silly us for turning God's house into tourist attractions..... hmmmm seems to me Jesus dealt with this before (ref. turning over tables in the temple :) )
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